About the future of Opensolaris

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About the future of Opensolaris

Saturday, February 27. 2010

There were some interesting statements in the #opensolaris-meeting IRC freenode.net channel yesterday:

+[12:06] * DanR (~chatzilla@nat/sun/x-tbazbldvpztcwjjh) has joined #opensolaris-meeting +[12:07] <DanR> So we do know a few things now, as I discussed on the OGB call a couple days ago... +[12:07] <ptribble> (How's about that for putting Dan on the spot?) +[12:08] <DanR> Yeah, thanks... +[12:08] <DanR> So, here's what we can say: +[12:09] <DanR> Oracle will continue to make OpenSolaris available as open source, and Oracle will continue to actively support and participate in the community +[12:09] <DanR> Oracle is investing more in Solaris than Sun did prior to the acquisition, and will continue to contribute technologies to OpenSolaris, as Oracle already does for many other open source projects +[12:11] <DanR> Oracle is committed to supporting our customers +[12:13] <DanR> And Oracle will ensure customers running OpenSolaris have an option for support on Oracle Sun Systems where it's required, though given the very little sales here this will not be something we expect many customers to deploy going forward. Solaris is our focus, on both SPARC and x86. +[12:14] <DanR> Oracle will also continue to deliver OpenSolaris releases, including the upcoming OpenSolaris 2010.03 release. +[12:16] <DanR> The patch decision is aligned with how Oracle does business in other areas as well, patches are delivered for customers but not for free. So it's consistent, that doesn't define a platform future at all. x86 is the core of our Storage appliances for example, we're not going away from it at all. Though clearly we make more money on SPARC so there is more of an emphasis given the customer base. +[12:19] <ptribble> DanR: what about open development in the future? +[12:22] <DanR> ptribble: Oracle will continue to develop technologies in the open, as we do today. There may be some things we choose not to open source going forward, similar to how MySQL manages certain value add at the top of the stack. It's important to understand the plan now is to deliver value again out of our IP investment, while at the same time measuring that with continuing to deliver... +[12:22] <DanR> ...OpenSolaris in the open. This will be a balancing act, one that we'll get right some times but may not always. +[12:30] <TechJournalist> DanR: for 'regular' users and contributor to Open Solaris - do you figure that anything will change in terms of how open solaris is delivered and how developers contribute? +[12:33] <DanR> TechJournalist: Love to see the tech journal crowd participating! And yes, regular users will find things mostly unchanged. Contributors also. +[12:35] <ptribble> DanR: do you see any implications for the other OpenSolaris-based distros? +[12:39] <DanR> ptribble: No, as previously once we went to the distribution model with OpenSolaris I expected they would need to find their value add area or niche and I don't think this changes that at all. They can still do want they want based on CDDL. +[13:06] * DanR (~chatzilla@nat/sun/x-tbazbldvpztcwjjh) Quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.5.8/20100202152834])

I think this is a good indication, that all this rumours about the end of Opensolaris are just speculation. So let's just wait for any official product announcements ...

Posted by Joerg Moellenkamp in English, Solaris, Sun/Oracle at 21:10 | Comments (15) | Trackbacks (0)
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Summary with better readability:

http://www.h-online.com/open/news/item/OpenSolaris-future-assured-by-Oracle-942161.html

#1 ALex on 2010-02-28 11:49 (Reply)

Something I've not seen discussed anywhere; is Solaris 11 going to be based on OpenSolaris (still) or is the 11 line going to be 10 with cherry-picked features from OS?

#2 Aaron Brady (Homepage) on 2010-02-28 12:07 (Reply)

@Aaron - I'm trying to figure that out, too. I'm parsing what he said in that log, and my impression is that their focus is going to be more on Solaris proper and less on OpenSolaris, which to me would imply that the systems would diverge more. I'm especially noting the "some things we choose not to open source going forward" bit. Sun has always done this with some products, but it's interesting to me that he states it explicitly.

I'm reading a lot between the lines here, though; he didn't really give us a lot of real information to work on. Hopefully however this turns out both OpenSolaris and Solaris will get the support they need.

#3 JeremyT on 2010-02-28 20:22 (Reply)

"Oracle will also continue to deliver OpenSolaris releases, including the upcoming OpenSolaris 2010.03 release."

This is bad news, especially for me. I had hoped Oracle would kill, or at least turn around the direction in which OpenSolaris is going.

Yes, I vehemently disagree with contorting OpenSolaris into looking and behaving like GNU/Linux (/bin/bash, /root, /usr/gnu first in PATH), but my biggest disagreement is with IPS and the policy choices it forces down a sysadmin's/consumer's throat: no pre/postinstall and pre/postremove scripting, files get moved around upon removal... I can't wait to see how Oracle could be packaged with the IPS - the whole packaging system is nonsense.

And most of all, I am extremely bitter that a bunch of people who have not thought things through (see packaging Oracle above) are trying to brute-force a problem which has been solved almost 20 years prior by engineers at sgi.

I'm extremely pissed that Sun (and now Oracle) hasn't approached Rackable Systems (now sgi) and negotiated buying the inst(1M) and roboinst(1M) technology from IRIX 6.5, because it does everything IPS does, only better. And it is well thought through and it works beautifully.

#4 UX-admin on 2010-02-28 21:01 (Reply)

"here may be some things we choose not to open source going forward, similar to how MySQL manages certain value add at the top of the stack."

"though given the very little sales here this will not be something we expect many customers to deploy going forward. Solaris is our focus, "

Very consistent with Oracle's philosophy, yet vaguely useless PR information. Clearly OpenSolaris is going to be Oracle's orphan child without proper child support.

#5 TS on 2010-03-01 05:17 (Reply)

"Oracle will ensure customers running OpenSolaris have an option for support on Oracle Sun Systems where it's required"

In other words, no OpenSolaris support on non-Sun systems. That's the death of OpenSolaris on Dell/HP.

#5.1 TS on 2010-03-01 05:24 (Reply)

"The patch decision is aligned with how Oracle does business in other areas as well, patches are delivered for customers but not for free."

This is the end of Sun and Solaris for me. I am a nobody who has a handfull of Sun Microsystems servers (V210's, V240's, 3120's, 3320), I can in no way afford a support contract with Oracle. Sun Microsystems servers and Solaris suited my needs perfectly, all within reasonable budget limits. I feared Oracle would do something like this, among other things, which is why I was vehemently opposed to their purchasing Sun Microsystems. James Gosling's blog for 21 January 2010 reflects my feelings and now experience perfectly

#6 Ian Ballantyne on 2010-03-01 14:03 (Reply)

Why not try some free opensolaris-based os? Nexenta seems to be a good choice.

#6.1 Peto on 2010-03-01 16:35 (Reply)

NexentaOS for SPARC is useless...

#6.1.1 Maciek on 2010-03-01 16:50 (Reply)

Wait, no Nexenta for SPARC. That leaves you with Martux maybe?

#6.1.2 Peto on 2010-03-01 17:00 (Reply)

Would not put OpenSolaris into production on anything, regardless of whether I was dealing with one of my personal servers or one of my employer's big irons. It is far too immature in many aspects.

Also, one of the major draws I see in Solaris is being able to install it once and then forget about it, save for applying the latest security updates every now and then; with OpenSolaris, you can't weed out security from updates and every other build craps out and ruins your system (thankfully we have alternate ZFS boot environments to save us, which elevates it from 'unmitigated disaster' to 'slightly less than horrible').

#6.1.3 Isolation on 2010-03-01 23:53 (Reply)

If Oracle orphans OpenSolaris, then I don't think derivatives such as Nexenta are going to fare very well either.

I'm thinking of what I'll do if Oracle kills or abandons OpenSolaris on x86. At work we still run (a few) Solaris 10 boxes, having moved mostly to Linux; at home I run OpenSolaris x86, and I'm quite happy with it for that purpose. As a home user obviously real Solaris is out of the question if paid support is the only option.

I guess I should start tracking the FreeBSD mailing lists again hoping for a ZFS enabled migration path

#6.1.4 JeremyT on 2010-03-02 00:18 (Reply)

I have to agree with Isolation here, OpenSolaris, as much as I would like to use it, is not stable enough to use in production environments.

I'm bitterly disappointed with Oracle here. No, I'm angry, and hurt, it's a brutal unnecessary, uncalled for assimilation. I've been a vocal supporter of Sun Microsystems and their products for many years, their program and products, and customer support were great. Even when I wasn't a paying customer, Sun was still helpful. That wont happen with Oracle.

With Oracle's purchase of Sun, I was hoping for much better, decisions that would continue to support small customers like me. I was hoping Oracle would understand Sun Microsystem's customers. Obviously they don't. I saw this coming though, because Oracle is only interested in big paying customers who fill their coffers with lots of money. That's why I wrote an objection to the purchase in August to the European Commission. At least I can say that I spoke out.

Oracle is doing themselves a disservice here. Small installations like mine can often be a kind of reference installation, where everything runs well, and the experience there is passed onto others. Without that, others who might deploy Solaris and Sun hardware will instead use something else, so Oracle loses out, and so do we.

Now I will have to find a migration path to another platform, and certainly I won't be recommending Oracle or Sun to customers any more. Even that is a painful decision for me, but now I am forced to make it.

To Sun Microsystems - Goodbye dear friend, you were a shining light for me. I will always remember you.

#6.1.5 Ian Ballantyne on 2010-03-02 13:05 (Reply)

This is essentially how Linux got to where it is; one small success story at a time. That kind of "bottom up" growth doesn't realize profits right away, because the big money is still in big hardware. But Linux keeps working its way up as time goes on.

It seems like this is/was Sun's strategy with OpenSolaris, but it just never quite made it to a production ready state.

I don't fault Oracle for circling the wagons and trying to bring in as much enterprise money as possible from Solaris in the near term, but I do hope they see long term value in getting some kind of Solaris or OpenSolaris into smaller shops as well.

#6.1.5.1 JeremyT on 2010-03-02 19:24 (Reply)

Just got the next piece of news a short time ago. The Sun Academic Initiative (SAI), in which Sun generously supported universities, schools, and other educational institutions with things like two servers for one deals, free access for students and staff to online courses, certification test vouchers at massively discounted prices (~90% off), will end at the end of March.

Oracle really knows how to kill a scheme which gave Sun a base and head start with the students and institutions it supported.

#6.2 Ian Ballantyne on 2010-03-03 00:19 (Reply)

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